Rules Changes - Bylaws Revision Control

[ahundt]

The Sweepstakes committee is looking to change the rules again this year, so I've finally set up revision control for the buggy rules. It contains changes made by myself, and nat gist before me.

The main rules tracking project can be found at:
http://www.launchpad.net/buggy

The text can be viewed at:
http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~athundt/bu ... laws/files

I figured now is the time to legitimately track this. For now I plan to continue managing the project, and I will add others as requests come in. The main branch will only contain rules approved by the sweepstakes committee, and other individuals will be able to create and track their own proposals.

Let me know what you think.

Cheers!
Andrew Hundt

[BuggyBob]

The following comment is not about 'by laws' per se, but doest relate to 'rules':
After the DQ of SDC last year over the propane tank location in the 'buggy prep area', I posted the comment that the 'buggy prep area' needs to be defined accurately, so that arbitrary DQ'ing does not occur again. I provided a draft and description of what I thought was a reasonable definition of what the prep area should be. This info still exists on another thread on this BAA website.
Has anything been done to change the rules to deal with this problem? If nothing is done, there's nothing to stop it frm happening again.
I'd guess that issue this is actually a matter for the Sweepstakes Committee, and not the BAA per se, but what's the best way to get this resolved? Suggestions?
Fortunately for SDC, the DQ decision was rescinded, but the ill-defined 'buggy prep area' issues does still remain.

[shafeeq]

Based on what was said at the first meeting, I understand that regardless of what the buggy rules define (now or in the future), the Fire Marshall is going to make his own judgement of what constitutes a fire hazard that must be removed.

The penalties for a fire-safety violation, however, are merely administrative details that are open to debate by the Sweepstakes Committee.

[BuggyBob]

Based on what was said at the first meeting, I understand that regardless of what the buggy rules define (now or in the future), the Fire Marshall is going to make his own judgement of what constitutes a fire hazard that must be removed.

The penalties for a fire-safety violation, however, are merely administrative details that are open to debate by the Sweepstakes Committee.

I don't agree. The Fire Marshall's role is to enforce rules, just like a policeman enforces laws. The rules need to be defined, otherwise the FM can be arbritrary. For instance, in the case of 'What is the buggy prep area?', the FM needs to know what 'turf' he's responsible for. Example: Suppose someone is sitting on a hay bale in The Chute having a smoke between heats, and flicks a cigar ash on the bale and sets it on fire. Is the FM supposed to be running all over the course checking things out?
Looking at this issue from another perspective, I would not want the FM's job. If someone did get burned during the races, he could get his ass sued for being negligent, even though he could 'claim' it wasn't his job - for instance if some asshole screws up while refilling his butane lighter at the top of Hill 1, is that the FM's job to patrol there too? No one knows.

[TommyK]

I don't agree. The Fire Marshall's role is to enforce rules, just like a policeman enforces laws. The rules need to be defined, otherwise the FM can be arbritrary.

So you are in favor of restricting the discretion of the FM?

The point of having a university appointed monitor with open-ended authority is to allow for unforeseeable conditions. Allowing for expansive interpretation fits the conservative nature of fire-safety regulations and the University's liability limitation motive.

Cigarettes in bales (or trash cans) and rampant Zippo filling enthusiasts are not even close in terms of fire-safety severity when compared to having 400,000 BTUs of liquid propane 'near' enclosed trucks with immobile drivers loaded in buggies. The FM was able to use his judgement to define 'near' in this case because the tank was located on the hill above the truck. The FM made the right call in terms of having the LP removed. Narrowing the FM's discretion is an inappropriate response.

The proper change to the regulatory system that resulted in an 'unfair' application of the rules is exactly what is probably being discussed by the Rules Committee: Modifying the Administration's and Sweepstakes Committee's ability to respond to the FM's judgement and apply reasonable disciplinary measures.

[hvincent]

I'm going to write a greasemonkey script for myself to block out all posts that mention FMB and LP because it boggles my mind that people who have no current involvement with buggy besides being distant observers indulging in their nostalgia for their college days are still bickering about it and it gives me a headache to read any of it.

[TommyK]

I'm going to write a greasemonkey script for myself to block out all posts that mention FMB and LP because it boggles my mind that people who have no current involvement with buggy besides being distant observers indulging in their nostalgia for their college days are still bickering about it and it gives me a headache to read any of it.

Did you read the sign on the front door?
Pretty sure it says "BAA, place for crotchety old alums to rant about their golden years and beg for attention with their opinions about stuff they have no control over" as well as "BAA, place for young hipster Alums to beg for beer from crotchety old Alums" and "BAA, where snark goes to die" or something like that.

If you're connected to what's going on on-campus with the rule changes then kindly clue us in instead of taking the time to whine about the geezers with professional experience in fire safety trying to genuinely contribute advice on a pertinent issue, we even managed to keep it on the right thread!

Admittedly, when I was in school, lighting stuff on fire was a fun part of buggy, but now that I'm old I can't help yelling stuff like 'you'll shoot your eye out'.

p.s. Fire Marshall Bob taught me that the reason that the leads on outlets are black and gold is because of the Steelers. Green is for ground because the Packers suck.

[McCue]

So you are in favor of restricting the discretion of the FM?

How did you possibly get that from the original statement? Let him determine what's safe and then the committee meters out punishment accordingly. Ideally, make it so that the punishment doesn't eliminate one of the three fastest, most involved teams ruining 60 man-years worth of work for a large chunk of the student body.

Also raceday was cold. That's my other complaint.

[ahundt]

If you propose an actual rule text revision then we can make practical progress towards a solution to these issues. Alternatively, create a "blueprint" with useful details about how you feel the rule should be fixed. Blueprints can be proposed from here: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/buggy

[BuggyBob]

If you propose an actual rule text revision then we can make practical progress towards a solution to these issues. Alternatively, create a "blueprint" with useful details about how you feel the rule should be fixed. Blueprints can be proposed from here: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/buggy

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To follow on your inout....
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Here's a quick-and-dirty sketch I made of what 'I think" might be a reasonable 'buggy prep area'. The actual 'layout' is truly open for discussion. I posted this sketch before.
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For example, should the 'buggy prep area' be:
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* All of Allegheny County? (no).
* Should it go to the top of Hill 1 (I don't think so).
* Should it include The Chute (no).
* Should it include nearby dorms or other campus buildings (good question? I do not know.)
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But this sort of simple diagram is a place to start talking and could easily be included in The Rules. And once some concesnsus is arrived, this could be passed-on for inclusion and The Rules (with a prior input from the Fire Marshall).
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Defining this 'buggy prep area' will help the Fire Marshall do his/her job and promote safety.
FWIW, I think this sort of 'sage' input and experience from us 'old fart' buggy nerds, is what we (the BAA group) can really offer to the teams that are actually racing.
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END OF RANT