Pusher Eligibility Rules

[shafeeq]

Which is still more than any greek org gets for buggy, since no greek org is eligible to even be considered for JFC. Greek orgs have to rely pretty much exclusively on those dues you railed against and alumni donations.

For those who don't know, Greek Orgs can't get JFC because COSO considers them not valid student orgs (because we are single sex, despite having a Title IX exemption).

Unless this has changed in the last year, since 1999 you were eligible for up to $500 for each of booth and buggy, recognized or not. Some houses have asked for and gotten it in the past. Seems more than fair to get a quarter of what the independents get.

[galexkeene]

...is this just everyone's response because independents are finally winning? Because something tells me if PiKA or SigEp had won this year, no one would have brought up budget or pusher eligibility issues.

Hahahahaha, how little you understand the SDC hate you silly human. We win, we lose, we tie... we get shit on. It's like death and taxes.

[TommyK]

fungible is a funny word.

i can't access the budget link.

1/2 because my understanding from 10 years ago was only half of the Fringe budget is from Student Activities Fees - they only match what you raise/cough up. Not half of the budget went to building Bonsai. That's the current allocation but there's rumblings in the Senate about reducing buggy support.

Frat finance and structural issues are full of interesting conundrums ... in-house/out of house members, alcohol and entertainment funds, budget meetings and alumni solicitation ... you dug your own holes there by being gender restrictive, can't you technically be open to women and just not vote any in? (soft ball for the gaybashers)

We've been complaining about SDC's budget forever. A friend of mine was big into SDC for everything else except buggy and said when they asked for money it was for flat fee of something like 10-20k and when someone asked what for there was some kind of hissy fit about secrecy (this is a seriously old memory about an anecdote from someone else, but i remember the contrast from our budget process at the time was distinct because we were required to line item expenditures for the build so we used code letters for the same reasons ... Material C was carbon, Material B was Bondo, Material D was duct tape etc). Rumors abounded about Rage's pan being ordered from NASA ... 15 years later its still rolling and rolling well.

So is it really true that SDCbuggy members don't spend a dime of their own money or have fundraising they have to personally perform? You mean I didn't really have to sell popcorn, run up my credit cards and walk liberty ave at 2am for this shit?

[tbach0729]

fungible is a funny word.
Frat finance and structural issues are full of interesting conundrums ... in-house/out of house members, alcohol and entertainment funds, budget meetings and alumni solicitation ... you dug your own holes there by being gender restrictive, can't you technically be open to women and just not vote any in? (soft ball for the gaybashers)

The federal government has specifically given Greek organizations an exemption for single-sex status (since there are fraternities and sororities), so why is it that JFC seems to be so obsessed with that? CMU is one of the few campuses in the nation where greek orgs are not recognized student orgs through the JFC-style organization (JFC/COSO). Plus, as far as buggy funding goes, Greeks are not single-sex (drivers are women, women push teams)

This is not the first thread nor the first site/discussion where I've heard dues for greek orgs brought up. I'm at least thankful you didn't bring up the "you're paying for friends" argument, because that one's getting old. The dues pay for everything I get to do as a member, a lot being buggy. Our dues and budget don't (and aren't allowed to legally) go towards buying alcohol or anything like that. And in fact, my dues are MORE than covered by the amount of money I save by being off of campus housing/meal plan and in my houses. I actually come out with a profit.

So here's my question. I pay the student activities fee just like any other student. Why is my organization of choice any less deserving of being able to apply to use a part of that pie? I'm not saying we should automatically get what we ask for - but why can we not apply just like Fringe/Pioneers/CIA/Spirit? If I were told - you're greek, don't pay student activities because you take care of your own budget - that would be one thing. But that wouldn't make sense at all, because very few Greeks are involved in only their org on campus.

Its a really weird paradox to me, because so many people seem to make 2 conflicting arguments - that we dug our own hole and have these magical money pots to just find everything out of, and then simultaneously say how bad dues are. Fraternity brothers (at least here, we're not at an Ivy!) are not any less of 'poor college students' than those in independent orgs, and we want to be involved in buggy just as much. Greek orgs do allow outside members of the campus to get involved through drivers and women push teams, so its also not a fully exclusive team; even on the men's side, it's not that hard to get invited to join a fraternity if that is your goal.

[Zatchmo]

So here's my question. I pay the student activities fee just like any other student. Why is my organization of choice any less deserving of being able to apply to use a part of that pie? I'm not saying we should automatically get what we ask for - but why can we not apply just like Fringe/Pioneers/CIA/Spirit? If I were told - you're greek, don't pay student activities because you take care of your own budget - that would be one thing. But that wouldn't make sense at all, because very few Greeks are involved in only their org on campus.

I agree with this completely (even being on an independent now). JFC does allow a small allowance towards Greek buggy orgs willing to make a very vague spreadsheet on how the money will be spent, I think emailing someone the word 'safety gear' two years ago netted the maximum $300 or something like that. Sort of remember it being $500 for Greek booth, too. But for why you aren't on the same playing field monetarily, I can't justify. Honestly, the reasons seem to be tradition, the fact that no one wants to make the cuts to allow a large new funding sink on their year, and under-representation among JFC and Student Senate by Greeks. That said, there is a practical other side to it. Greeks are more willing to pay dues than independent members, and the people who don't do buggy help fund those who do. Independents would tend to collapse under similar requirements of their members. I am not saying that is a fair situation, but it does matter.

I am not saying every team should be equal monetarily, but I do think that when it comes to campus funding, the funding should be much more open and more even across the board.

[Carl Nott]

So here's my question. I pay the student activities fee just like any other student. Why is my organization of choice any less deserving of being able to apply to use a part of that pie? I'm not saying we should automatically get what we ask for - but why can we not apply just like Fringe/Pioneers/CIA/Spirit?

Let's not lump Spirit in with that group. Spirit was an organization long before we were forced to start doing buggy and we spend a lot more money on non-buggy activities than buggy activities, and that's the way it should be.

One of my favorite alumni-student icebreakers:
'So guys, you need some money for buggy? Because I was checking out the Spirit budget and man, you guys spend a LOT of your budget in February, which doesn't even make any sense since that's the shortest month of the year!'

I really don't mind the disparity in funding though. Like so many things in the buggy experience it helps prepare you for the real world.

[Ben]

For those of you debating on JFC's funding policy:

E. Funding Buggy and Booth programs:
1. JFC is permitted to fund up to twenty-five (25) percent of the cost of a Buggy program, and up to fifty (50) percent of the costs of a Booth program, for any student organization that is not Student Government Recognized, provided the funds will be used in accord with the Carnegie Mellon University Student Activities Fee Policy and the Carnegie Mellon University Statement of Assurance.

That is their policy for any organization NOT recognized by StuGov. As of this year though, Eric Wu decided to apply it to ALL independent organizations as a cost cutting measure. So, those orgs that some of you are complaining about having it so easy just lost $1500 on average of their funding i.e. %75 of their program. These budgets are all public and visible to everyone and anyone can apply for funding from them, and now it doesn't matter if that's your only source of funding or not. if buggy is the main thing you do, (i.e. CIA/Pioneers) you just got royally boned.

also, gotta say that this discussion has deviated a bit from the "pusher eligibility" part.

[Carleton]

For those of you debating on JFC's funding policy:

E. Funding Buggy and Booth programs:
1. JFC is permitted to fund up to twenty-five (25) percent of the cost of a Buggy program, and up to fifty (50) percent of the costs of a Booth program, for any student organization that is not Student Government Recognized, provided the funds will be used in accord with the Carnegie Mellon University Student Activities Fee Policy and the Carnegie Mellon University Statement of Assurance.

That is their policy for any organization NOT recognized by StuGov. As of this year though, Eric Wu decided to apply it to ALL independent organizations as a cost cutting measure. So, those orgs that some of you are complaining about having it so easy just lost $1500 on average of their funding i.e. %75 of their program. These budgets are all public and visible to everyone and anyone can apply for funding from them, and now it doesn't matter if that's your only source of funding or not. if buggy is the main thing you do, (i.e. CIA/Pioneers) you just got royally boned.

also, gotta say that this discussion has deviated a bit from the "pusher eligibility" part.

I think the real question here is why does the school hate buggy when it is arguably the best thing about CMU? Why does booth get more funding? Even if the school gave each org 10k (not counting SDC, since they already have a 70k budget) that's 100k. The school really can't afford that for something that engages and teaches hundreds of students?

Wasn't part of the original reasons for founding the BAA to combat the school's seeming efforts to eliminate buggy? Perhaps instead of bickering about who gets more money and whether teams should be allowed these pushers or those, we, as alumni, should be discussing ways in which we can bring our (limited) influence to assist buggy.

[jixson]

Is there someway for Sweepstakes to distribute funds? If JFC gives Sweepstakes twice as much as they do, that's less than half a percent of JFC total subsidy. Sweepstakes could then distribute that money to the teams. Or is this incredibly illegal?

[shafeeq]

E. Funding Buggy and Booth programs:
1. JFC is permitted to fund up to twenty-five (25) percent of the cost of a Buggy program, and up to fifty (50) percent of the costs of a Booth program, for any student organization that is not Student Government Recognized, provided the funds will be used in accord with the Carnegie Mellon University Student Activities Fee Policy and the Carnegie Mellon University Statement of Assurance.

The "not" in there is new in the last year or so.
When that rule was introduced, everybody involved intended it to apply to Spirit/Pioneers/Fringe/CIA. That seems fair, since it's not like you'd expect, say, the Ski Club to pay for its members' expensive hobby.

There used to be a additional 75% of a new buggy every 4 years, which made the average work out closer to booth funding.
That seems to have gone away while I wasn't looking.

In any case, the portion of your activities fee that goes to paying for Sweepstakes itself is 10X of what goes to all the independents put together.

I would have to guess that it consistently brings alumni back is a big part of why the university hasn't killed the giant liability that is buggy already. As much as we love it, it doesn't seem to engage the vast majority of current students, and it is a good question why?