Pusher Eligibility Rules

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revo
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Re: Pusher Eligibility Rules

Post by revo »

Carleton wrote: Wasn't part of the original reasons for founding the BAA to combat the school's seeming efforts to eliminate buggy? Perhaps instead of bickering about who gets more money and whether teams should be allowed these pushers or those, we, as alumni, should be discussing ways in which we can bring our (limited) influence to assist buggy.
Damn, I thought this thread was for bickering, not something useful. And yes, one of the goals of BAA is to promote buggy and participation - if we can do so by helping organizations get the necessary funding to compete that would be an excellent way of doing this.

Coming up with a base amount that a team needs to operate (e.g. $x to just exist, + ~$y per race team) that could be a standard for the various funding sources to utilize would be nice. With JFC/SDC Execs/whomever still obviously having the discretion to adjust as they see necessary to deal with their budget restrictions and/or unique needs of a team/year.

--

Certainly wheels have become a much more expensive proposition than in the recent past. We have recently gone from the original Xootr wheels which were competitive for very cheap (probably the cheapest stock solution to be available for buggy), to wheels that are probably the most expensive buggy has ever seen (for a stock solution). Having BAA (a third-party organization) making JFC/SDC execs etc aware of such changes in the cost of doing buggy on a general level should help all organizations. I personally don't care if fraternities get funding from the activities fee. Certainly it'd be nice to have drivers using newer safety equipment - helmets that don't crack on impact etc, so defraying those costs at a minimum makes a lot of sense - the fact that alumni are expected to make up a sizeable portion of budgets [independents and I assume fraternities as well] is fairly unique for a student activity. Basically, instead of the pervasive statements that SDC has the wrong take on things ($ amount may/may not be higher than necessary) we should be trying to figure out a way to convince the powers that be that buggy should be a more fully funded activity for all organizations. (Hence a baseline budget amount etc. with some restrictions/regulation over how funds are spent... so that student funds aren't needlessly spent)
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DangerMike
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Re: Pusher Eligibility Rules

Post by DangerMike »

revo wrote:...the fact that alumni are expected to make up a sizeable portion of budgets...
This also implies that you need alumni if you want to participate. As we most definitely found out during my time with buggy, it can get to be very expensive, especially if you don't know what you are doing and try to build. I don't know this for a fact, but I'm pretty sure that Brooklyn (which sucked) cost about twice as much as Brazen, Banyan, or Bonsai.

What made the original Xootr(s), the Ukai(s), and the old derby wheels important for the sport was that they allowed a team to get something decent on the course without several years and thousands of dollars in refinements. The war-by-proxy of the powers of derby is the obvious result, but it is far from an affordable, off-the-shelf solution.

In my humble(?) opinion, there are three barriers keeping students out of buggy:

1.) Time commitment. Waking up early sucks. Unlike booth, buggy is a commitment for many months. You just can't roll without putting in a lot of time.

2.) Capital commitment. Even if you put the buggy and the wheels aside, you need a room and tools. The ancillary gear for buggy is expensive. If you want to not suck, not top 3, but just not suck, it takes tons of cash or an established program.

3.) Lack of room for the casual. Let's say you have some friends, a space, and a few grand to burn. All the other orgs are going to hate you if you come out to rolls with a reincarnation of The Fish and "waste" precious free roll time. The closest I've seen were when the Shocker, Limo, and Teal Whistler have come back out. Or the Stealth team for CIA '98. It is no coincidence that these came out of established organizations.


Here's my question for you all: There are a bunch of orgs that are big and competitive, but they don't do buggy. I'm thinking of groups like ASA. What is keeping them away?
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jixson
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Re: Pusher Eligibility Rules

Post by jixson »

DangerMike wrote: Here's my question for you all: There are a bunch of orgs that are big and competitive, but they don't do buggy. I'm thinking of groups like ASA. What is keeping them away?
Because you can't build a buggy out of paper-mache
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DeVos
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Re: Pusher Eligibility Rules

Post by DeVos »

jixson wrote:Because you can't build a buggy out of paper-mache
That's not exactly true. I'm fairly sure that Kappa bought CIA's Defiant and gave it a new paper mache exterior. (CIA alums from that time feel free to correct me)

To the original point, I think that part of the reason may be that they spend so much time doing booth leading up to Carnival. That doesn't seem to be a good enough explanation but I don't know enough about them as a group to speculate further.
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Re: Pusher Eligibility Rules

Post by nbonaddio »

DangerMike wrote:Unlike booth, buggy is a commitment for many months.
This is absolutely incorrect for a LOT of organizations. Like many other KDRs (and PhiKaps, SigEps, etc.), booth decimated my Spring semester. If you want to win either gender-divided Greek division, the time commitment needed is astronomical and frankly, much higher than Buggy.

I would venture that it's in fact Booth that is keeping organizations like ASA and TSA away from Buggy. Certainly it was the/a reason why DU and PhiKap never reached their potential.

Can't disagree about the waking up early part though.
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Carl Nott
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Re: Pusher Eligibility Rules

Post by Carl Nott »

DangerMike wrote:Here's my question for you all: There are a bunch of orgs that are big and competitive, but they don't do buggy. I'm thinking of groups like ASA. What is keeping them away?
I'd say several things.

Helping new/other teams carries a stigma. I get shit all of the time* for spending, I dunno, what, an hour (max) basically telling a few guys that 'yeah, you can build a buggy'. New/recovering teams that have the drive to compete simply need encouragement that it's possible and a few general pointers. I mean, granted, a little help may have been the difference between a resurgent team winning Design Comp and simply having a solid buggy, but (like the fact that I'm a white dude) some things are difficult to judge from afar. So there's that.

Also, I'm sure existing teams don't want new teams on the course. It slows things down, new teams don't know what they're doing; if you're a current student why would you want new teams on the course?

* Fucking true story:
'What are you looking at?'
'Pictures from raceday.'
'Oh. Buggy raceday? That happened again?'
'Yes. Check out these sweet pictures of our Hill 2 pushing off.'
'He's pretty buff. Look, they're using stroller wheels.'
'...'
'Oh, Fringe won?'
'Yeah, they did.'
'Are those the engineering nerds that you helped?'
'WHAT THE FUCK!?!?!'
TeachMeHowToBuggy
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Re: Pusher Eligibility Rules

Post by TeachMeHowToBuggy »

Carl Nott wrote: 'Are those the engineering nerds that you helped?'
If by engineering nerds you mean bi-winning alpha males filled with tiger blood.
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DangerMike
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Re: Pusher Eligibility Rules

Post by DangerMike »

TeachMeHowToBuggy wrote:
Carl Nott wrote: 'Are those the engineering nerds that you helped?'
If by engineering nerds you mean bi-winning alpha males filled with tiger blood.
No, dude. This was back in my era. Carl had it right.
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Carl Nott
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Re: Pusher Eligibility Rules

Post by Carl Nott »

DangerMike wrote:
TeachMeHowToBuggy wrote:
Carl Nott wrote: 'Are those the engineering nerds that you helped?'
If by engineering nerds you mean bi-winning alpha males filled with tiger blood.
No, dude. This was back in my era. Carl had it right.
It was actually my wife. Who HATES buggy. But she knows that I carry the mark. WHAT THE FUCK.

BTW, 'bi-winning alpha males filled with tiger blood' sounds like an advert for a tourist destination in Thailand. FYI.
shafeeq
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Re: Pusher Eligibility Rules

Post by shafeeq »

Carl Nott wrote: BTW, 'bi-winning alpha males filled with tiger blood' sounds like an advert for a tourist destination in Thailand. FYI.
Seems like a profitable fundraising plan ...
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