Raceday 2011 open questions

Zatchmo
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Re: Raceday 2011 open questions

Post by Zatchmo »

Carl Nott wrote:Gotta say, I'm having trouble fighting the temptation to make a massive donation to buggy for the purpose of providing a gigantic trophy to the t-shirt design winner.
That would be outstanding. Little trophies for design comp, plates for winning the damn race, and a five foot tall multi-level monstrosity topped by a proud plastic man adorned by a t-shirt for winning the t-shirt competition.

It would be great, like a punishment for winning it. 'Good shirt. This will now inhabit 4 square feet of your garage forever or until your head mechanic gets pissed off and smashes it with a hammer'.
blue
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Re: Raceday 2011 open questions

Post by blue »

...or until whoever designed the shirt manages to truck the thing back to their apartment/house to live in glory forever. Did you see Josh at awards? He wanted a damn trophy, and for keepsies. Of course, if I'd actually managed to design as awesome a shirt as he did I'd have felt similar.

Correct me if I'm wrong Josh :P
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jixson
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Re: Raceday 2011 open questions

Post by jixson »

blue wrote:...or until whoever designed the shirt manages to truck the thing back to their apartment/house to live in glory forever. Did you see Josh at awards? He wanted a damn trophy, and for keepsies. Of course, if I'd actually managed to design as awesome a shirt as he did I'd have felt similar.

Correct me if I'm wrong Josh :P
Damn right, I would have a shrine built for that thing with an eternal flame, incense, and carvings of cherubim.
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Carl Nott
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Re: Raceday 2011 open questions

Post by Carl Nott »

I'd think that ideally the trophy could display the winning t-shirt design. How about a life-sized cast of an alumni from the waist up, shirtless, and throwing two thumbs up? The trophy is presented actually wearing the winning t-shirt.
RedTachyon
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Re: Raceday 2011 open questions

Post by RedTachyon »

If you are more interested in giant trophies than immortality on BAA.org and bragging rights, then perhaps you should look into the Little Miss Pittsburgh Contest! Those suckers are bigger than the contestants, even the Miss Congeniality Award. :lol:
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lemuroid
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Re: Raceday 2011 open questions

Post by lemuroid »

shafeeq wrote: Is the SN driver's head injuries something peculiar to that buggy, or is it something that could happen in any buggy that crashes the same way? If so, are people comfortable with that?
As far as I know, there were no significant injuries to report. Driver shaken up pretty good, a scratch or 2 and a precautionary trip to the ER to be sure there was nothing worse. As far as buggy injuries go, there have been far worse.

The crash was frightening as the buggy essentially rammed the inner bales (which had the consistency of concrete) at almost full raceday speed (less what was lost in skidding due to the uber-tight turn). The crash protection worked well considering the energy transfer involved. A shattered helmet and a trashed harness each did their job in absorbing energy. The 'protective cage' was exactly that and did its job. A stronger harness might have helped but that is picking nits at this point.

So, would other buggies fair as well in protecting the driver? Difficult to assess. I will note that with this buggy, the driver's head is behind the rigid shell of the buggy and there is nothing on front of her (no fork or wheel) to hit her head upon in the event she slides forward. I suspect these design elements and the helmet helped to prevent a much worse result.

I tip my hat to the alumni (Tom W, Lou C, and Bill G) and cmu staff (Ann W) who drove the rules change back in the late 80s. A pre-rules change buggy with helmet-less driver would not have faired nearly as well.
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TommyK
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Re: Raceday 2011 open questions

Post by TommyK »

lemuroid wrote: A shattered helmet and a trashed harness each did their job in absorbing energy. The 'protective cage' was exactly that and did its job. A stronger harness might have helped but that is picking nits at this point.

So, would other buggies fair as well in protecting the driver? Difficult to assess. I will note that with this buggy, the driver's head is behind the rigid shell of the buggy and there is nothing on front of her (no fork or wheel) to hit her head upon in the event she slides forward. I suspect these design elements and the helmet helped to prevent a much worse result.
So what did she hit her head on to crack the helmet?
Trashed the harness or the harness anchor points?

In the three accidents that I had first hand experience with (Janice in Bachi slid and rammed the curb nose first, JoAnn in Basketcase went under a car at push practice, Bas(s)ketcase flipped in the chute) the protective shells all did their job and the harnesses did their jobs TOO well, with lingering back/shoulder pain from the sudden stop being the only injury symptoms.

Are accident reports available to the public? Should they be?
lemuroid wrote:The crash was frightening as the buggy essentially rammed the inner bales (which had the consistency of concrete)
again with the hay bashing ...
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lemuroid
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Re: Raceday 2011 open questions

Post by lemuroid »

The harness mount was fine, harness stitching failed and thus the slide forward. Ideally, it would have stretched but held.

I believe she slid forward into the hatch/windshield.

Clearly a wake up call to check harnesses for adequate stitching moving forward.
shafeeq
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Re: Raceday 2011 open questions

Post by shafeeq »

Harness seams are an issue that every team has to deal with, and seem like the perfect way to improve safety by making it public so that other teams can judge how likely the same thing is to happen to them. At least this is something easy to test - figure out how strong your harness needs to be, go to the gym and start hanging weights on it.

At some point, the rules added a requirement for "professional stitching" of harnesses. Unclear what good that did.

At the time, people were curious about whether going forward into the hatch (as seems to be the case) or left-right into the shell broke the helmet. I would think most good teams pay attention to where the driver's head will go in a frontal crash and keep buggy parts out of reach. Unless someone is using head restraints, or has the helmet fitted into the shell, I don't see how one can keep the helmet from bouncing off the inside of the protective cage in a significantly sideways crash. That's probably going to go badly for a soft-shell helmet when the cage is made out of small-ish metal bars. The rules aren't clear on what they require in this case, since they all are in terms of applying forces to a _stationary_ cage.
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