PiKA

[Carsen Kline]

The news article on PiKA's removal from campus was diplomatic, well written, and really heartfelt. Thank you, Sam, for breaking the news to us with all the facts and class that we've come to love about your reporting.

Let's assume the worst case happens, that PiKA loses their house and school recognition for four years. What can we do to help?

What if a new, student senate funded organization named "FOAD" were to be created this summer, with a focus on buggy and intramurals. The group would be founded by a fairly large group of friends with vast amounts of buggy experience and access to a large fleet of black buggies.

They'll need a garage, and maybe there's some space in the basement of a residence hall or the UC still available. The Sweepstakes Adviser could probably help on that end.

They'll need good contact with alums who raced these same black buggies in the past. The BAA can try to help with this.

They'll need some encouragement and a fire under their butts to realize that just because their group of friends has to change names, doesn't mean they have to give up buggy.

I hope I'm not the only one who feels that way.

[DangerMike]

Well, if Nik's (now invisible) comment is correct, any attempt by PiKA to operate under the guise of an independent organization would be met with harsh punishment. If nothing else, I'll pretty much guarantee that you won't see any current PiKA buggy on the course until this suspension is served out.

[nbonaddio]

Well, if Nik's (now invisible) comment is correct, any attempt by PiKA to operate under the guise of an independent organization would be met with harsh punishment. If nothing else, I'll pretty much guarantee that you won't see any current PiKA buggy on the course until this suspension is served out.

Student Life was incredibly clear to us that any inkling of us remaining as an underground organization would result in a continuation of our suspension, perhaps indefinitely. We've in fact had to go into Student Life multiple times to patiently explain to them that Fringe was in fact a functioning, prosperous organization before we supposedly "took it over".

Without knowing the specific details of their sanctions, I would be shocked (and frankly, disappointed) if theirs was different than ours on this point. Assuming that it's similar, their Alumni will quickly come to the decision that our Alumni did, that four years is bad enough but it pales in comparison to forever.

[Carsen Kline]

...four years is bad enough but it pales in comparison to forever.

Well, that sums it up. Thanks, Nik.

[shafeeq]

With a non-greek organization, what grows back after a 2 year absence is very different from what was there before. What grows back after a 4 year absence is ... nothing. I imagine the national frats have a process for starting new houses, so I suppose PiKAs and KDRs will continue to be themselves when they come back, but will they care about Buggy any more than PiKAs at other schools do?

But they'll hit their first Carnival with one recruiting class worth of members, with zero experience running their old buggy program and one semester of being a coherent house. Sure, they'll have a fleet of black buggies, and alumni who know everything about them. Having been in that situation, I can say that still isn't easy - there's a bunch of "common sense" that every new mechanic, chairs, and probably push captains, learn from their predecessors, that seems so obvious that nobody thinks about it. Without it, you end up rediscovering many "how could anyone possibly screw up _that_ way" mistakes (c.f. Kappa, PhiKap).

Through blind luck, CIA restarted with a group of mechanics & drivers who got along with their alumni, and who realized quickly that there were "known unknowns" that we could never learn from the alumni. Some of the early Spirit guys may say similar things, at least when drunk.

Unless PiKA recruits from other teams, or has alumni involved to an inappropriate level, this is going to be tricky for them at first. At least their alumni have time to plan for it. And they won't be looking at the actives wondering "who are these idiots and what have they done with my team!?"

Plus, it will be 4 years since the most recent alumnus last did Buggy. I have yet to meet a former mechanic from any team who hasn't said, "man, I'm surprised that we go away with what we did. If I have to do that now I'd do something safer/more reliable/less half-assed." Learning from alumni with post-buggy experience might lead the new FOADs to be more conservative than if they'd learned from upperclassmen. This has certainly had a negative effect on CIA over the last decade. Hopefully PiKA is smarter or has a more comprehensive big black book of buggy lore.

[Elmo Zoneball]

... or has alumni involved to an inappropriate level, ....

At the risk of inducing thread drift, I think this is topic worthy of discussion: what is an "appropriate" level of alumni involvement in buggy?

AFAIK, the only rule that appertains is the one that says buggies must be designed, built, and raced by undergraduates of CMU.

Beyond that, it appears that when it comes to outside "advice" the sky is the limit.

Additionally, the rule clearly was not intended to prohibit buying COTS wheels, bearings, epoxy resins and fasteners to used in construction of buggies, nor does it prohibit outside machine shop/welding fabrication, either purchased or donated. Thus, alumni can clearly do such things and remain within the rules.

Design advice would also appear to be within the rules -- if the undergrads can hire a machine shop to fab some spindles, they can just as well pay some engineer to nerd out a steering design, and they'd be within the rules. So, arguably, an alumnus can advise them in a similar manner.

If we all agree on the foregoing, the question boils down to this: what is "over the line" as far as alumni involvement? At what point does alumni involvement become "inappropriate"?

Is there a consensus on this, or do we all have our own nuanced interpretation?

[lemuroid]

the impact of 4 years o( or possibly 5 depending on the timing of the suspension) ff will be interesting.

4 years is a long delay on whatever technology curve(s) they are following. What is 4 years worth?

From a technology perspective, In 2007

PKA wheels were quick and pka was at / near the top of the freeroll time sheets
SDC was running on something that was not aend/white (those wheels did not exist until 2008)
fringe had just brought out the AEND/green wheels
Sig epp was a push team looking for a freeroll.

Fast forward 4 years to 2011 and you find:

Sig ep has found respectable freeroll speed
fringe and sdc both have gotten the hang of the ZE/AEND wheels
pka has built 2 fringe clones and an interesting standard trike.
pka on rubber or urethane is 2nd tier in the freeroll

2016 is a long time from now. Unless, the pka brothers keep some irons in the fire by joining other orgs (a la KDR), they may be looking at a more significant gap back from the leaders when / if they return.

[ipmcc]

Nik, you said:

Student Life was incredibly clear to us that any inkling of us remaining as an underground organization would result in a continuation of our suspension, perhaps indefinitely.

Out of curiosity: Is that just with respect to "activities"? Will PiKA be allowed to rush and pledge new classes? A four year suspension from campus housing and activities like buggy/greek sing/booth/etc is one thing, but a four year suspension from EVERYTHING is quite another all together. (Both shitty, to be sure.)

How bad is it?

[nbonaddio]

Nik, you said:

Student Life was incredibly clear to us that any inkling of us remaining as an underground organization would result in a continuation of our suspension, perhaps indefinitely.

Out of curiosity: Is that just with respect to "activities"? Will PiKA be allowed to rush and pledge new classes? A four year suspension from campus housing and activities like buggy/greek sing/booth/etc is one thing, but a four year suspension from EVERYTHING is quite another all together. (Both shitty, to be sure.)

How bad is it?

I say this with the caveat that I don't know what the specifics of their sanctions are, assuming they stand. But if it's similar to our sanctions:

They can't do anything. They can't rush, they can't hold meetings, they can't play IMs together. They don't exist in any format. I mean, they wouldn't even let a few of our brothers live together off-campus without raising a stink.

You know what really fucking sucks though? Having the school tell you your suspension is two years, just to have them tell you two years later that it's actually four. But I digress.

[ipmcc]

Out of curiosity, and quasi-rhetorically, how does a house survive that?